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by political asylum. there is a complete defense for whistle blowers to criminality. think about it. the people who expose the milan massac massacre, should they have been prosecuted. auschwitz, should that person have been prosecuted? >> david, i'd love to get your thoughts on this. the debate over whether or not lives have been harmed is still very a raging debate. a lot of people would argue the other side of that. >> one thing that bradley manning did was he didn't leak documents on a given one of these things, you know, that michael just went through was a major dump that had what some people depending where they sit, good leaks and bad leaks. to me, it's very troubling that he would be prosecuted under the espionage act even though he was let off on the aiding and abetting the enemy, which i thought was ridiculous, is this really espionage. if you look at the washington post, they have a great chart this morning, 20 odd different counts. michael i'm sure is familiar with all of them. only a few espionage. there were others about leaking classified information, violating regulations, thing
furloughed. who's going to man veterans hospitals? who's going to make sure defense work gets done? who's going to take care of indian reservation health care and schools? i mean that's -- those are federal responsibilities and shutting down the government for a goal that you can't achieve that way is just counterproductive. >> what do you think of the reporting that we're getting saying that republicans intend on using the august recess to pressure reluctant lawmakers on this strategy? i mean i guess as a republican, how devastating, how destructive in this infighting for the party on the whole? >> oh, i never mind debates. look, i think that's part of what politics is about and people advance ideas. again, remember, this is a difference over tab tix, not objectives. none of us are supporting obama care. in that sense i think we take our eye off the ball and if you again adopt a strategy that can't work -- this one just simply will not work -- you falsely raise the hoech your own supporters that it might succeed and you're going to be pretty devastated when you fail. so again this is j
stroked. but the sequester cuts, half of them come out of the defense budget. idea when the sequester was conceived was that it was supposed to be so terrible for both the right and the left that it could never be allowed to become law. then the compromise was struck, was no, nobody can come up with anything they like better so we'll let it become law and that's acceptable to a lot of people on the hill but it is really unacceptable to john mccain. both he and the president would really like to come up with a deal to replace the sequester and it's given him an incentive to cozy up to democrats. and work with some people like lindsey graham. >> which "cozy up," we mean talk to. i think we allow ourselves to be hijacked by this narrative that you are cozying up to narratives if you are talking to the white house about matters of national import. >> it is not just talking. the end game for mccain is to come up with a big fiscal deal that does things that conservatives would really dislike because it would unwind part of the sequester. mccain i think cares much less about the total size o
warfare. >> that was president obama two months ago at the national defense university signaling that u.s. counterterrorism efforts would change in his second term and the country's seemingly forever war would come to an end. but today the country is still waiting and this week, as the president tries to shift focus to the economy, a vigorous debate is taking place over america's counterterrorism strategy. yesterday the house came within 12 votes of restricting the nsa's massive surveillance program. the amendment highlighted the deep intraparty divide over the government's creeping surveillance powers in the 1/2 wrath of 9/11. >> have our memories fade sod badly we forgot what happened on september 11th? passing this amendment takes us back to september 10th. >> when you have the chance to stand up for americans' privacy, did you? >> the lower chamber isn't the only place in washington with a spirited debate on counterterrorism. yesterday the senate held its first hearing in five years on the future of guantanamo where 166 detainees remain indefinitely, 86 of whom have been cleared for
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